<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s Be Honest&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/lets-be-honest/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/lets-be-honest/</link>
	<description>The Unofficial Blog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 02:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=MU</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: ricemithun</title>
		<link>http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/lets-be-honest/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>ricemithun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-175</guid>
		<description>The literal understand of the passage, I believe, would be that Jesus has given the power of the remittance of sins, or withholding that, to the Church. I note specifically to the Church, because of the plural number of the Greek verbs (here in Texas, we would say "if y'all forgive the sins..." instead of the ambiguous English "you").

Does this mean that our sins are forgiven solely through the medium of the Church? I think not, and the passage does not say this. Paul tells the leaders of Ephesus that he has preached to people to “turn to God in repentance,” (Acts 20:21) and this is whom, I believe, we must first turn, and He will hear our cry and “He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness,” (1 John 1:9) even if no other man hears.

That said, this passage brings up a point I was trying to make, and am continually exploring in my daily life. The Church, as the body of believers, is there to deal with sin as well. Jesus, before this passage, talks about the Church confronting erring members, both one-on-one, and corporately (Matthew 18:1-35). The Church is also there to aid in God’s healing process of sin. We are in need of confession to each other, and this confession can made to any firm believer, for we are all in God’s priesthood (1 Peter 2:9). We are exhorted to confess to and pray for one another (James 5:16). But if we can obtain forgiveness from God, why the need for confession to the Church? Let me offer at least one explanation I read from Richard Foster:

“[There are times when] we have prayed, even begged, for forgiveness, and though we hope we have been forgiven we have sensed no release...The haunting sorrows and hurts of the past have not been healed...Not wanting to call God a liar, we do our best to take it by faith...[but] God has given us our brothers and sisters to stand in Christ’s stead and make God’s presence and forgiveness real to us.”

Foster, and I myself, have found this to be oh so true. The Church is there as a physical and vocal reminder of the reality that is already in place: that we are forgiven and being made righteousness. Just this week I had one of my good friends confess to me a sin he’s told no one else before, and sin that has been weighing him for at least a year, maybe more, despite his confession to God. But when he told me, and I held him amidst his tears and assured him by the power of this very passage that he is forgiven, the reality of that forgiveness of God which had already happened but he was unable to experience. With his head on my breast, my hand on his head, and both of us in an embrace, I almost whispered to him the truth that if he wrote his sin down on paper, I would shred it and burn the remains, if he engraved it on the stone, I would throw it in the depths of the ocean, for I know that God has already done so. Need all sins go through this touching, but painful, experience to be forgiven? No, but some do, and that’s why God has made the Church. Praise God for the Church, a body of saints, yes, but a body of sinners first!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The literal understand of the passage, I believe, would be that Jesus has given the power of the remittance of sins, or withholding that, to the Church. I note specifically to the Church, because of the plural number of the Greek verbs (here in Texas, we would say &#8220;if y&#8217;all forgive the sins&#8230;&#8221; instead of the ambiguous English &#8220;you&#8221;).</p>
<p>Does this mean that our sins are forgiven solely through the medium of the Church? I think not, and the passage does not say this. Paul tells the leaders of Ephesus that he has preached to people to “turn to God in repentance,” (Acts 20:21) and this is whom, I believe, we must first turn, and He will hear our cry and “He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness,” (1 John 1:9) even if no other man hears.</p>
<p>That said, this passage brings up a point I was trying to make, and am continually exploring in my daily life. The Church, as the body of believers, is there to deal with sin as well. Jesus, before this passage, talks about the Church confronting erring members, both one-on-one, and corporately (Matthew 18:1-35). The Church is also there to aid in God’s healing process of sin. We are in need of confession to each other, and this confession can made to any firm believer, for we are all in God’s priesthood (1 Peter 2:9). We are exhorted to confess to and pray for one another (James 5:16). But if we can obtain forgiveness from God, why the need for confession to the Church? Let me offer at least one explanation I read from Richard Foster:</p>
<p>“[There are times when] we have prayed, even begged, for forgiveness, and though we hope we have been forgiven we have sensed no release&#8230;The haunting sorrows and hurts of the past have not been healed&#8230;Not wanting to call God a liar, we do our best to take it by faith&#8230;[but] God has given us our brothers and sisters to stand in Christ’s stead and make God’s presence and forgiveness real to us.”</p>
<p>Foster, and I myself, have found this to be oh so true. The Church is there as a physical and vocal reminder of the reality that is already in place: that we are forgiven and being made righteousness. Just this week I had one of my good friends confess to me a sin he’s told no one else before, and sin that has been weighing him for at least a year, maybe more, despite his confession to God. But when he told me, and I held him amidst his tears and assured him by the power of this very passage that he is forgiven, the reality of that forgiveness of God which had already happened but he was unable to experience. With his head on my breast, my hand on his head, and both of us in an embrace, I almost whispered to him the truth that if he wrote his sin down on paper, I would shred it and burn the remains, if he engraved it on the stone, I would throw it in the depths of the ocean, for I know that God has already done so. Need all sins go through this touching, but painful, experience to be forgiven? No, but some do, and that’s why God has made the Church. Praise God for the Church, a body of saints, yes, but a body of sinners first!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: asimplesinner</title>
		<link>http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/lets-be-honest/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>asimplesinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 00:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-173</guid>
		<description>I am confident that the remission of sins comes from God alone, too.  

Where we likely differ is HOW it comes from God.  

Moving past what it &lt;I&gt;seems&lt;/I&gt; to imply, all things being equal, why not go with the more literal understanding in this passage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am confident that the remission of sins comes from God alone, too.  </p>
<p>Where we likely differ is HOW it comes from God.  </p>
<p>Moving past what it <i>seems</i> to imply, all things being equal, why not go with the more literal understanding in this passage?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paintown</title>
		<link>http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/lets-be-honest/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>Paintown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Mit Manhani! 

Great truth, brother. And I rejoice that we are putting into practice the tenets that build a more open and honest community here at Rice. I pray that this discipline of community and confession does not leave you as you move on to bigger and better things. You are a treasured friend and I thank God for your wisdom and passion for this truth. 

-P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mit Manhani! </p>
<p>Great truth, brother. And I rejoice that we are putting into practice the tenets that build a more open and honest community here at Rice. I pray that this discipline of community and confession does not leave you as you move on to bigger and better things. You are a treasured friend and I thank God for your wisdom and passion for this truth. </p>
<p>-P</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ricemithun</title>
		<link>http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/lets-be-honest/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>ricemithun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-158</guid>
		<description>asimplesinner,

Reading this passage, and its context, its difficult for me to understand, as I'm sure it is for you. On the one hand, I am confident that the remission of sins comes from God alone. On the other, this passage seems to, on the surface, imply that Jesus and the Spirit gives us the authority to forgive sins. Let me be truthful that I am not wise at all in these theological matters, and that most of what I have found is research in other commentaries on this passage.

First, let us not forget that in addition to this passage, Jesus commands us to forgive a virtually unlimited number of times (Matthew 18:22). Given that, there will be no time in which, if we are in the Spirit like the disciples were, we would ever "withhold forgiveness" to a repentant sinner. Since neither would the Lord, in His boundless grace, it seems a moot point to consider the possibility that we could prevent a penitent sinner's sins to be forgiven, even if we had the 'power' to do so.

Given that, why would Jesus say this. Note that this phrase is given in the context of, in John's version, the Great Commission: Jesus sending us to preach the Gospel. So far, the best understanding I have of this passage, then, is that the forgiveness that is being given or withheld is the Gospel itself. When we preach the Gospel, we offer the salvation and forgivenss of sins it holds; when we don't, we withhold that opportunity to people (Romans 10:14). Thus, in line with the commission, this statement is more of declaration of our duty of love to our fellow man, rather than one of giving us divine power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>asimplesinner,</p>
<p>Reading this passage, and its context, its difficult for me to understand, as I&#8217;m sure it is for you. On the one hand, I am confident that the remission of sins comes from God alone. On the other, this passage seems to, on the surface, imply that Jesus and the Spirit gives us the authority to forgive sins. Let me be truthful that I am not wise at all in these theological matters, and that most of what I have found is research in other commentaries on this passage.</p>
<p>First, let us not forget that in addition to this passage, Jesus commands us to forgive a virtually unlimited number of times (Matthew 18:22). Given that, there will be no time in which, if we are in the Spirit like the disciples were, we would ever &#8220;withhold forgiveness&#8221; to a repentant sinner. Since neither would the Lord, in His boundless grace, it seems a moot point to consider the possibility that we could prevent a penitent sinner&#8217;s sins to be forgiven, even if we had the &#8216;power&#8217; to do so.</p>
<p>Given that, why would Jesus say this. Note that this phrase is given in the context of, in John&#8217;s version, the Great Commission: Jesus sending us to preach the Gospel. So far, the best understanding I have of this passage, then, is that the forgiveness that is being given or withheld is the Gospel itself. When we preach the Gospel, we offer the salvation and forgivenss of sins it holds; when we don&#8217;t, we withhold that opportunity to people (Romans 10:14). Thus, in line with the commission, this statement is more of declaration of our duty of love to our fellow man, rather than one of giving us divine power.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: asimplesinner</title>
		<link>http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/lets-be-honest/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>asimplesinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-154</guid>
		<description>How generally as an Adventist do you interpret Christ’s command in John 20:21-23 &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;?

How do you understand what Christ empowered them to do or what He meant by &lt;i&gt;“If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld”&lt;/i&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How generally as an Adventist do you interpret Christ’s command in John 20:21-23 <i><b>Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”</b></i>?</p>
<p>How do you understand what Christ empowered them to do or what He meant by <i>“If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld”</i>?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Divya</title>
		<link>http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/lets-be-honest/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>Divya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-152</guid>
		<description>You hit the nail right on! wow. This post has made me both smile and cry....... it's amazing how simple the whole process of honesty is, and yet how complex we make it when we begin to hide "secrets" to preserve the BIG lie - our deepest fear.

As one counselor put it, "You're only as sick as your secrets." 
Well, if secrets make us "sick" then we must be a very, very, very, very SICK Church! About time we let the Healer into our lives, and into our church! 

(Quoting Herb Douglass) Ah! For that day "when we all can step up and over our manufactured fences - and have real, honest conversation and common devotion to our infinitely honest Lord."
Such an inspiring post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You hit the nail right on! wow. This post has made me both smile and cry&#8230;&#8230;. it&#8217;s amazing how simple the whole process of honesty is, and yet how complex we make it when we begin to hide &#8220;secrets&#8221; to preserve the BIG lie - our deepest fear.</p>
<p>As one counselor put it, &#8220;You&#8217;re only as sick as your secrets.&#8221;<br />
Well, if secrets make us &#8220;sick&#8221; then we must be a very, very, very, very SICK Church! About time we let the Healer into our lives, and into our church! </p>
<p>(Quoting Herb Douglass) Ah! For that day &#8220;when we all can step up and over our manufactured fences - and have real, honest conversation and common devotion to our infinitely honest Lord.&#8221;<br />
Such an inspiring post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Herb Douglass</title>
		<link>http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/lets-be-honest/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb Douglass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventistyouth.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-150</guid>
		<description>I am dazzled with such transparent honesty in the attempt to speak for honesty. I treasured each sentence. Nothing is worse than an empty-suit Pharisee. Or a stuffed-doll Sadducee. That's just about where most are today, some call themselves conservatives and others, liberals (progressives). But when we really attempt to be honest, we can recognize the best in what conservatives treasure, and the best in what liberals (progressives) will fight for. I dream of that day, and it can be real soon, when we all can step up and over our manufactured fences--and have real, honest conversation and common devotion to our infinitely honest Lord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am dazzled with such transparent honesty in the attempt to speak for honesty. I treasured each sentence. Nothing is worse than an empty-suit Pharisee. Or a stuffed-doll Sadducee. That&#8217;s just about where most are today, some call themselves conservatives and others, liberals (progressives). But when we really attempt to be honest, we can recognize the best in what conservatives treasure, and the best in what liberals (progressives) will fight for. I dream of that day, and it can be real soon, when we all can step up and over our manufactured fences&#8211;and have real, honest conversation and common devotion to our infinitely honest Lord.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
